I thought it would be a good idea to create a blog for idea sharing and conversation about the rec center. After all we might have a good thought sooner than every 2 weeks. : ) Also as new people join (or leave) we can just invite them to the blog spot to get updated and to share their ideas. I also think that with this issue being so pervasive that it is extremely important for this committee to act with complete transparancy. There are after all no bad ideas and for the amount of our money that is proposed to be spent, everyone should be able to know exactly where this important issue is heading
With the meeting this past Tuesday night we have concluded our business and have our reccomendations ready to go to the Boards of Directors. Thanks so much to everyone who participated by attending the meetings or posting on the blog. The next update will be when the Boards of Directors have a meeting scheduled to hear our reccomendations. Please, please plan to attend that. I will post that information as soon as we have it available.
The final reccomendations of the Recreation Center Committee are as follows:
Rekey the locks with high quality no copy medeco keys.
Replace the existing fence with an 8" industrial grade aluminum fence with access into the playground, volleyball/basketball and pool only. Disable the existing pass through gates into the pool area.
Install an upgraded security camera system in the rec center area to be able to fully cover the entire area with infrared cameras and a dvd burner.
Finally distribute the keys to each owner in person by giving them a copy of the rules and regulations and then they must sign for the keys saying they have read and agree to abide by all the rules and regulations and that there are consequences for failing to do so. Any infractions that are not covered by the police department will be addressed by the fining committees in place in Sterling Manor and Wyngate and will be assesed according to the Florida Statues.
Also the spa needs to have some work done to convert it to a salt system to bring it up to current code.
15 comments:
MINUTES
The recreation committee meeting was called to order at 7:05 P.M. In attendance were; Alice Filson, Tarey Franxman, Campbell Caldwell, Manoj Gupta, Brian Stork, Chris Hurlburt, C.F.Guy, Clayton Kreis, Chris DeCarlo, Sandra Johnson and Kevin Ryan pf Sentry Management.
The meeting began with a review of the issues under consideration by Alice Filson. It was noted that the mandate of this committee was to provide recommendations to the Wyngate and Sterling Manor board for changes/improvements to the security and management of the recreation area. It was also noted that, although the relocation of the basketball court was still an eventual possibility, there were some board members who felt that these other changes needed to be considered and implemented first.
All in attendance were given an opportunity to make suggestions and comments on possible proposals. This included improvements and/or changes to the amended rules, the video security system, fencing, gates and locking systems, lighting and consideration of on site security personnel.
After much discussion, the essentials of the committee’s recommendations can be distilled to the following;
RULES – Suggested additions to the rules
The entire recreation area should be open from dawn to dusk with the exception of the tennis courts, shich should be open until 10 P.M…..There is a zero tolerance on disruptive behavior or vandalism, infractions, where appropriate, will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law….Persons occupying the area after posted hours will be considered trespassing
As a temporary measure while the new hours are being enforced, the lighting in the volleyball area should be disconnected, as it closes at dusk.
BATHROOM DOORS – The bathroom doors should be made self closing and self locking at all times
VIDEO SECURITY SYSTEM – Improvements to the security system, particularly the addition of more cameras, a DVD burner and possible internet access should be investigated…. In addition, motion sensor lighting should be considered to support the camera system.
FENCES AND GATES – The complete replacement to an upgraded, industrial strength, eight foot fence on the perimeter of the area should be under consideration….all existing gates should be re-keyed with either a new key, stamped do not copy, or a high grade Medeco non copy key….The interior gates between the pool and volleyball and playground should be removed
LANDSCAPE – Under immediate consideration should be a landscape buffer on the northern property line to provide some relief for noise issues with adjacent homeowners
Other suggestions still under consideration include; installing a shower and water fountain by the volleyball court, an identification system for residents using the facilities, some sort of contact system on the gates so if they are left open or used after hours, a security company could respond. The committee also discussed approaching the board of directors of the Brighton Bay Master Association about a drive through security program.
It was agreed that the committee would meet on Tuesday July 10th for further consideration of the fence replacement and security system improvements. Professional contractors would be invited.
This is a great idea! Thank you Alice, you are awesome!
Everything sounded great that I read and am in agreement with except for one thing. My one and only concern with regard to the the meeting notes and suggestions is to even consider removing the fence between the pool and volleyball.
If anything, I would think it should be locked again. I say this becasue I have witnessed an increase in the amount of sand entering the pool area and pool ever since we took the lock off the fence. And people enter the pool dirty, sweaty and sandy. I would even hazard a guess they are not residents, but I see people directly entering the pool without rinsing off regularly. In addition, since the lock has come off I have seen a couple of times where purposely and maliciously someone had dumped sand in the pool and hot tub. For these reasons, I would like to see the lock put back on and have had this discussion with some of my neighbors who agree and feel the same way. If they are residents then it should not be an issue to walk around and enter the pool area like everyone else to at least help to counter-act these issues. Thanks.
We need to be careful with the wording of the "rule" that states the following: "There is a zero tolerance on disruptive behavior or vandalism, infractions, where appropriate, will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law….Persons occupying the area after posted hours will be considered trespassing..." The wording should be specific about proscecuting vandalism; however, if dues-paying, non-vandalizing, hardworking residents (such as Mr. Filson, for example) had a particularly hard day at work and needed to soak in the hot tub, but the motion lights detected him occupying the premises some time after dusk, are we really going to prosecute him? If we say something, we need to be willing to do it.
Additionally, I don't think volleyball is disruptive enough to anyone to shut down at dusk. Many law-abiding, residents like to go play after they get home from work, which may be after dusk. Perhaps that "rule" and removal of the lights needs to be reconsidered. There are no lights on the basketball court and we could easily make the dusk rule with that in mind. If we tighten the ship and keep the vandals out, we should be able to enforce our rules without taking away privileges from residents who do not abuse out recreation center.
Thanks,
Sandi
Faz...
Thank you for your comments. Please pass the blog on to all your neighbors. The fence proposal allows for the removal of all the gates that access the pool area. So it is exactly what you said and for the exact reasons you said.
With regard to the hours...I also tend to agree with Sandi about closing that area before 9pm. 9pm is a reasonable time and the City's municipal code allows for that area to be open later than that. I think the behavior has to be regulated by the people who are the problem and not regulate the behavior of the people who are not a problem. And I think giving a "wink" to violaters who go up there is wrong. You can't have selective enforcement of anything.
To the point of regulating the behavior of the people who are a problem...the police department and our community officer have been requested to attend the next workshop to help address the problems of the rec center area.
Great idea with this blog Alice. Let me know if you need help with the multi camera security system with hard disk base DVR and internet access so that you can access and view the camera using the internet from anywhere. I can set that up and since we are going to need internet access at the pool area, we might as well offer free WIFI with password access to our residents to use around the pool while babysitting their children.
Sam's club or Costco has great deal on those internet accessible security camera system.
Another day at Sterling Manor Rec. facility provided my son (who repeats everything) with a vast dialog of profanity and some interesting finds at the children's play area. Some condoms were found as well as beer bottles galore and some hard liquor bottles to boot spread from play area to pool to volleyball courts. This afternoon we were visited by our friends who continually break the rec. rules and are not even residents. The basketball players have provided my son with a vast working knowledge of profanity and the volleyball players have kept my wife (who is ill this weekend) up all afternoon while she is trying to recover.
I am going to have to plead once again to reconsider moving the basketball facility Tuesday night at the meeting and provide some peace to this corner of the neighborhood. This is not a problem that is going to go away with new rules or fencing or curfews that have to be enforced by, of course, the residents living closest to the facilities. If that is the case, we should probably have our dues waives as a matter of compensation for policing the area every night and our continued harassment over this issue. This will probably be my final appeal before I need to pursue other avenues. We have gained some more support for this and have come up with some other options for the space where the basketball court is currently placed. Thank you.
Brian Stork
I'd like to focus on the problem and not restrict residents from enjoying the rec area. If we create a restrive area, it becomes less friendly for our use as well.
I play volleyball and I have cleaned up the area many times, raked it, roto-tilled it, etc. for my own use. I too have founds condoms, and alcohol bottles as well which I have cleaned-up. I don't think any of this happens during the day. I think the problem is at night, and I think it is teenage kids. If we add cameras and catch them, that would be best. They are the problem. I like what Lee said about the cameras. And I think any vandals from the apartments should be evicted.
I don't like a bigger/stronger fence. These teenage kids could still easily jump it, we can't stop that. And I think it could look ugly. I don't want it to look like a prison.
Could we hire a security guard on weekend nights to try to catch the vandals? I don't knw if this is too expensive. If we can identify whether this is happening all the time or on weeknds only, we could narrow down when the problem is occurring. Or could we do a neighborhood watch to catch them?
Is the basketball court an atraction to troublemakers? Should we eliminate that & replace it with something else? I don't like the basketball court a part of the tennis courts. I think that is an awkward mixed of activities.
I do think it would be good to increase landscaping to shield the house to the north. If there is no space, does he want us to add landscaping to the back of his yard. I know this is against community policy, but just a suggestion.
Also, for sand in the pool, could they add a shower in the volleyball area, at the gate exiting to the pool? I enjoy the freedom to go between the VB courts & the pool, and not be locked out. FYI, every person I have ever invited to play has voluntarily showered off before going into the pool, but you can never get all the sand off. So we haven't been the sand problem. Thanks.
Mike Oates
In addition to the fence contractor being invited to the meeting to discuss fence options I have also invited our Community Police Officer Joe Troung to attend. He confirmed to me yesterday that he will be there and may bring his seargent.
Great Meeting last night! Lots of good input from our committee members and guests. We have good information and recommendations for our board, and progress is being made. Thank you Alice and Kevin for lining up our speakers and contractors. Looking forward to the next meeting.
Sandi
All in all we are making good progress. What has been decided thus far is that with the bid for the new fence, an 8 foot industrial grade aluminum with spikes on the top all around the perimeter, coming in several thousand dollars less ($12,000 as opposed to $22,000) than what was originally anticipated that we will go with the medco keys that cannot be duplicated. When the locks are rekeyed the homeowner or their authorized agent will have to come and get the key, receive a copy of the rules and regulations for the area and sign that they have received them and agree to abide by them and failure to do so will result in loss of use. Next meeting we will have the security camera contractors there to discuss our options and then we will make a list of reccomendations to the Boards along with reccomended contractors. That should conclude things other than a celebration one this is all over that our work is done. Also I have ordered a hedge be placed along the fence line for Brian Stork and Chris Hurlburt of viburnum minimally 7 ft tall to start. If the plants are in stock it can be installed by weeks end. If not it may take an additional week.
A word of caution, if we use self locking doors it would be likely that one could be locked in the bathroom too. I worry for kids who use the restroom facilities because typically they will not have a key with them.
Just a thought.
Connie
WYNGATE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, INC.
STERLING MANOR HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, INC.
RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
JULY 10, 2007 – 7:00 P.M.
THE COVES APARTMENTS CLUBHOUSE
10901 BRIGHTON BAY BLVD., ST. PETERSBURG FL 33716
MINUTES
The recreation committee meeting was called to order at 7:05 P.M. In attendance were; Alice Filson, Chris Hurlburt, Clayton Kreis, Sandra Johnson, Paul Willet, Stephanie Adelson, James Long, John Gavaghan of West Coast Fence, Community Police Officer Joe Troung and Kevin Ryan of Sentry Management.
The meeting began with Officer Joe Troung discussing recent incidents in the community, the problems with response time and the limitations of police patrols. He made specific recommendations based on his experience with other businesses and communities. He noted that secure fencing that allowed street patrols to see inside was a partial deterrent. He strongly recommended video security with motion sensors and the capability to burn DVD’s.
Officer Joe discussed the problems with enforcing trespass ordinances and the difference between community rules and trespass laws. He stated that in most cases, there was the need to have a complaining party present to enforce trespass laws. He also noted the difficulty enforcing both profanity and noise nuisance statues. It has become a very difficult threshold for either of these to rise to the level of disorderly conduct.
Officer Joe does not recommend alarm systems or private security patrols. These are not effective in his experience. He is of the opinion that a video security system would be the best investment to assist in the enforcement of both the law and the community rules.
Next, John Gavaghan of West Coast Fence was introduced. He presented an updated bid to install an industrial grade perimeter fence around the basketball and volleyball courts, playground and pool. We would retain the existing steel gates and the internal fencing around the pool. Upgrades would include a rise in height to 8 feet and all posts would be set in concrete. The new bid was for $12,800 with an additional $1,200 for the removal and haul away of the old fence. Additional bids will be secured by management before the next meeting.
After discussion, by unanimous agreement, the committee agreed to not recommend any changes to the existing pool (dawn to dusk) and recreation area (9AM-9PM) hours at this time. The committee also wishes to recommend a change of locksets to the high quality Medeco system and a very controlled distribution process when this is accomplished.
Management would secure a detailed bid from a video security system contractor to be available for the next meeting.
It was agreed that the committee would meet on Tuesday July 24th for further consideration of fence replacement bids and security system improvements. A professional video security contractor would be invited.
I was at the tennis courts this morning and I noticed that the pool was trashed yet again. There were at least 5 glass beer bottles at the bottom of the pool and another 2 on the deck. On one of the tables there was a very large glass bottle of liqueur (empty). Hopefully this will stop when the new fence and locks get installed. I was unable to attend the last meeting but I will be there at the one on the 24th. I am glad to hear we are getting a new fence. Any word on when it will be going up? Maybe I missed it but when the fence goes up are we going to just one entrance?
WYNGATE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, INC.
STERLING MANOR HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, INC.
RECREATION COMMITTEE MEETING
JULY 24, 2007 – 7:00 P.M.
THE COVES APARTMENTS CLUBHOUSE
10901 BRIGHTON BAY BLVD., ST. PETERSBURG FL 33716
MINUTES
The recreation committee meeting was called to order at 7:05 P.M. In attendance were; Alice Filson, Chris Hurlburt, Paul Willet, Stephanie Adelson, Adam Rauman, Roland Collins and Kevin Ryan of Sentry Management.
The meeting began with a review of recommendations decided upon in past meetings:
The committee agreed to not recommend any changes to the existing pool (dawn to dusk) and recreation area (6AM-9PM) hours.
The committee also wishes to recommend a change of locksets to the high quality Medeco system and a very controlled distribution process when this is accomplished (approximate cost - $4,000).
The committee is recommending the replacement of the perimeter fence with an eight foot high industrial grade aluminum fence (two bids are on hand for just over $14,000).
The committee is recommending that the gate at the basketball court and the gates between the pool and volleyball court and the pool and the playground be secured and made non-functional.
After discussion, the committee agreed to the following recommendations as well:
The committee is recommending additions to the video security system to include more and better cameras (infra-red, motion sensitive), a DVD burner and internet accessibility (one bid on hand for $5,500).
Ongoing problems associated with maintaining the spa water to health department standards have caused the committee to also recommend the installation of an automatic chlorine and ph feeder (one bid is on hand for $3,400).
The meeting was unanimously adjourned at 7:45 PM.
super six fence, people forget to retain in the rear of the limestone garden bed or in front of the Hardie fence/ asbestos fence/ super six fence line.building a privacy fence
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